TURF WARS: WEEK ONE

Welcome to the official regular season kickoff of our Turf Wars edition- Our weekly debate series between Ross Mandel and Jason Koestenblatt.

Today's Question: Should Mike Vick ever be allowed to play again in the NFL?

OPENING STATEMENTS
ROSS: Rehabilitation- the purpose of the criminal justice system. Michael Vick admitted his role in a disgusting dogfighting ring and will spend some time in prison. The idea of this prison stint is for him to be punished AND rehabilitated. He knows he did wrong. He's going to pay for it, more than he knows. But to say he should be banned forever? Not only is this wrong from a second chance point of view, but it's wrong from the NFL's point of view. How many players have committed serious crimes, yet played another day? Plenty. The question isn't "Would you WANT Vick on your team?" It's "Should he be allowed to play?" Sure--it's up to each team to decide, but they need to have the choice. I don't see how- after he's paid his debt, the NFL can say "THIS crime is worse than everything before it." I don't see how the NFL can say "He hasn't been rehabilitated. He doesn't deserve a second chance." It won't happen. Plus--we all know that talent wins out over character, no matter what is said publicly. He should be able to play again.

JASON: There's no way anyone can condone the actions of Mike Vick. What he did was wrong- obviously and instead of being the man that he claims to be, he lied to his fans, his teammates, his employer and Commissioner Roger Goodell. Not only were his actions illegal in the eyes of the court, but downright grotesque and immoral. No matter who the commissioner is, and fortunately it's the iron-fisted Goodell, an upright, ethical man who wants his business to survive- won't allow a conVICKted felon back into his organization. Unfortunately, Ross, you have a good point. Players have done terrible things before and lived to play another game. But that has to stop here and now and Mike Vick must be made an example of.

REBUTTALS
ROSS: Leonard Little killed someone while driving drunk. He somehow got 90 days in jail and 4 years probation. Six years later, he was again busted for DWI! His punishment? A three-year contract extension. This is the league Vick plays in. This is the league Goodell runs for the owners. This is a quote from an NFL GM: “He'll still be young when he gets out of jail. There will be 15-20 teams waiting to sign him, trust me. Teams will say “F PETA' and F the bad pub this is one of the most talented players in the last 10 years. I'll take my chances.” Teams will say one thing publicly but when he gets out of jail, we’ll all be looking at him hard. We're all whores in football. You know the saying, we'd sign an axe murderer if he has ability.” This is the league Roger Goodell runs. Do I need to mention the endless list of players accused of serious crimes? From Ray Lewis, to Sean Taylor...these guys were in serious trouble. Fred Evans--charged with battery of a cop! He had to be tasered! His punishment--yeah, he got cut from the Dolphins...then picked up by the Vikings! Coach Childress put his spin on it, "I think it's going to have a positive impact on our team," Childress told the St. Paul Pioneer Press on Sunday. "We thoroughly researched this kid. I look at each situation individually. It doesn't mean character's not important. It's very important to me and to this football team. I think we've got a good group in the locker room and I think he'll benefit from being in this situation." Yeah, character's important...just not as important as winning. THIS is the league Roger Goodell runs. Time will pass. Outrage will pass. The stigma won't, but that doesn't mean Vick won't have learned his lesson. The man deserves a second chance, especially after people like Leonard Little are given more than that.

JASON: Let's use Adam "Pacman" Jones as an example. He was arrested several times between the day he was drafted up until his meeting with Goodell earlier this year and the commissioner decided to suspend him for the season because of his off-the-field actions. Why? Because he knows that not only is Jones creating a bad reputation for his team and the NFL, he doesn't want these promising young athletes with too much money to think they're more powerful than the system. That's where Vick comes in. Jones hasn't even been convicted, yet he's rightfully being punished. Vick is going to jail no matter how you slice it, and when he gets out, not only will it take him at least a year to rehabilitate physically, but the NFL will be the undisputed American sport, and although people's hearts tend to change, I trust our society, and the NFL, to make sure Mike Vick learns his lesson and never steps foot on a professional football field again.

COUNTERPOINTS
ROSS: His physical state doesn't matter. Pacman was suspended for a year. But he will be given a second chance and he was involved in a shooting which left a man paralyzed! How could Michael Vick--even now--think he's more important than the system? He is, as you said, going to prison! You don't believe in second chances? Of course you do. When he's paid the price, people will be satisfied. And he WILL pay the price. He's not going to skate on this. People want justice, and they're going to get it here--three years of his prime earning potential gone. Any future endorsements, gone. He will get an opportunity to prove that he's leaned his lesson--that's what he deserves, but not before we've seen justice served.

JASON: Lest we forget what other major sports have done to make their business more upright and fan-friendly. The NBA requested that all players not dressed in game clothing be dressed appropriately when sitting on the bench. Why? Because the image of the game was beginning to get tarnished by the "thug" nature of it's players. Now let's jump back a few years. Ever heard of the all-time hit king, Pete Rose? He bet on his sport, and his team -- legally -- but was banished from the game...forever!! Mike Vick ILLEGALLY bet on an ILLEGAL dogfighting ring. Why should this gambling thug, who gives the finger to his own fans, allegedly knowingly spreads STD’s in foreign countries and kills dogs for fun, be given a second chance? Vick is on his ninth life right now, and there's no way Goodell, the NFLPA or any team in the league can allow this disgusting human to put on spikes again. He's a disgrace to the game and an embarrassment to himself.

THE BIG QUESTION
FOR ROSS: Mike Vick lied to the owner, he lied to the team- he denied and lied to the public through personnel statements until he knew that there was too much evidence. Some feel that his apology was not really sincere at all, more so an act. Even his father has gone on public record of saying that this is “his (vick) thing”. The new commissioner is obviously trying to set a standard in what will be tolerated. Mike Vick goes against everything the new policy stands for. What makes Mike Vick worth a second chance?

ROSS: He deserves a second chance because he can face the music. He's going to pay for his crime, literally and in prison time. When someone commits a crime, we want to see them face justice. In this case, Michael Vick will be served. He did commit these heinous acts. He will pay for them. That's what the justice system is for. Once that's happened, he deserves a second chance. What more can we ask from our justice system, and the NFL's disciplinary system, than justice? Of course, at this point, he hasn't paid so he can't be given the chance. Whether this was "his thing" or not, it was immoral and illegal. Now he will pay for his crime. But after that, he'll continue to pay, as he should, with unforgiving fans and the constant reminder of his transgression. When is the punishment enough? The criminal justice system has decided what his punishment will be. Roger Goodell, to his credit, has NOT said Vick is banned forever. He knows, as I do, that to wait and see is the right move. To wait and see whether or not this lying man whom committed terrible acts is truly sorry. If he is, if he's learned his lesson, he will be allowed the chance to redeem himself. And redemption and comebacks--that's what America loves.

FOR JASON: There’s no question that dog-fighting is a hideous crime and a serious offense. Although, there are some who say that it is not much worse than hunting deer. Is Vick’s criminal act so bad that he should not even be considered for a second chance? State your case.

JASON: It's well understood throughout society, with the exception of some organized groups, that animals are considered inferior beings to humans. It's easy to see why people think killing dogs is harmless when so many Americans hunt deer, birds and other WILD animals. But many times, these instances are part of the "circle of life" or whatever you want to call it. Hunting deer is usually for the use of its parts, to feed the hunter. But the killing of a dog, a domesticated animal, and the bankrolling of a ring that pitted trained pets against each other, just so a group of people could watch and enjoy this- as entertainment, is heinous and downright evil. Vick's intention wasn't to put the dogs out of their misery, he was responsible for the actions at his home that included the raping, beating a and savage killing of these household animals. No, Vick doesn't deserve a second chance in the NFL. When he exits jail and is "rehabilitated" that's one thing, but if the organization that he lied to and was responsible for putting a dark cloud above in 2007 thinks that readmitting him to the organization is a wise move, then they are the ones to blame. Vick is a criminal that doesn't deserve to go back to the NFL.

CLOSING ARGUMENTS
ROSS: Look, I'm not a Michael Vick fan. I realize what he did was shocking, disgusting, terrible, etc. But I can't sit here while Leonard Little, who KILLED A WOMAN while driving drunk, then got busted AGAIN for the same crime, is allowed to play and say Vick can't have a second chance. To ignore precedent is impossible. Furthermore, the Falcons don't HAVE to sign Vick, nor does any other team. What I'm arguing here is that the teams be given the CHOICE to sign him. Whether a team SHOULD sign him is not the issue here, but rather should Vick be allowed the opportunity, after he has done his time, to ask teams if he can play for them. If no team wants him, fine. But to say he can't ask? That's too extreme. Especially in light of the hundreds of other players who have committed crimes- and while we're at it, where was the outrage when Leonard Little was let back on the field? Where were the newscasts covering his KILLING A PERSON? That coverage was nothing compared to what Vick's case garnered. Why? Because we love our dogs. More than we love strangers. But you know what else we love? We love comeback stories. We paid to see Mike Tyson fight when he got out of prison. We pay to see criminals every weekend on the football field, and we all know it. We give everyone a second (and sometimes 3rd, 4th and 5th) chance and we will give one to Michael Vick.

JASON: Here's the bottom line: Mike Vick committed a crime. A disgusting, horrid crime. Yes, there's been many players, in many sports, who have done terrible things in their private lives. So many of them have been given second chances, only to mess it up again. Ross, you brought up Leonard Little and his DWI charge after killing a woman. He was given a second chance, and he screwed it up. If the NFL had acted sooner on Pacman Jones, would he have been involved in the other crimes he's accused of? We don't know for sure, but maybe he would've learned from his ignorance earlier and saved himself from a lifetime of trouble. For Vick, if the NFL really loves it's players and the talent that makes it a multi-billion dollar industry, it WON'T let Vick participate when he gets out of jail. Why? So he he can say he beat the system and now can go back to his regular routine? Giving Vick a second chance to play in the NFL once he leaves prison would be a mistake by the league and could potentially hurt Vick even more. So often do these athletes think they're above the law- that they make themselves believe it and live it. Giving the team owners the option to hire Mike Vick is a terrible mistake because someone would have to fill a need somewhere and would have no problem justifying the "rebuilding" of Vick's athletic ability and more importantly, his image. Letting Mike Vick back into the league would be a terrible mistake by Roger Goodell and the NFL and it's players would be better off learning from his mistake.

So there you have it ladies and gentleman…Be Sure To Cast Your Vote!!!